01/07/02   Transcript for Monday, January 7, 2001 Master P Kid Rock Jo Dee Messina Gene Simmons Bill: Welcome to the show, "Politically Incorrect." I've got a lot to plug tonight. We have a very special show that we're doing in honor of the American Music Awards, which is Wednesday. We have all people who are involved in that show. Over here, of course, Mr. Kid Rock. It's been too long since you've been with us, but you've been busy getting huge. I mean that -- I mean that in the business. [ Laughter ] Although I'm sure it applies, 'cause you also fell in love. Kid Rock: Let that one slide. Bill: And this is your new record, "Cocky." Okay, now -- [ Laughter ] To your right is a huge country star, Jo Dee Messina. Good for you. Thanks for being here. American Music Award nominee for Favorite Female Country. And your new record is, of course, "Burn." Over here, we have Mr. Master P. Thank you for coming by, sir. "Game Face" is your new one, and you will, of course, be a presenter there. And, of course, age before beauty -- Gene Simmons. His new book, "Kiss and Make-up." And you also will be a presenter there at the American Music Awards. Give a hand to our panel. [ Cheers and applause ] And -- [ Cheers and applause ] Um -- Now, I do wanna talk about this kid who flew into the building. But first, there's something much more important on my mind. And I think because we have musicians here -- Gene: Well, you don't wanna go that far. [ Light laughter ] Don't. Bill: You're a musician. You're not like the Monkees. You played your own instruments. Gene: No, no, no, no. We play our own instruments. We do our own records. We produce them. But "musician" is a term, perhaps, say, for a higher form of art. Look, we're untrained. We can't read or write songs. We can't read or write sheet music. We do create music, but it's like sugar. I'm not sure it's the same thing as the classical stuff. Kid Rock: Is that what they call it now, "sugar"? Gene: Yes. [ Laughter ] Gene: Here's what -- Here's what it is. Bill: What a ridiculous bout of modesty for a group of people who are the most egomaniac -- Gene: Yeah, but that's true, but -- Kid Rock: That's it. I'm off. Bill: But it's true. Especially in your art form. You do nothing but brag about -- Gene: Yeah, but it's good stuff. Sugar tastes good. Burns fast. Master P: I'm brown sugar. [ Laughter ] [ Cheers and applause ] Gene: But there's -- all I'm saying is there's this deluded notion that people do art. They're musicians, and they're creating art. No, no. We talked about this backstage. All of us are bandits. We got away without working for a living. That's what it's about. Bill: I wasn't accusing you of getting art. I was gonna ask you why you get so many women. Gene: All right, well -- [ Laughter ] Jo Dee: I don't really get that many. [ Laughter ] Gene: Wanna talk about what we talked about? She said, "You know, it's not fair, men getting 20 girls at a time. It's not fair." I said, "Okay, let's be fair. Equal -- I'll do 20 women. You do 20 women." [ Light laughter ] Jo Dee: I dissent. Bill: But -- Jo Dee: And the question is -- Bill: The question -- It's all about music. Because, you know, everybody else who's in show business is always jealous of people in music. They say music people wanna be comedians and so forth. I don't know about that. But everybody wants to be musicians because we don't understand what it is. I think I understand, but let me ask you guys. Master P: I wanna play basketball. Bill: Yeah, I know you do. [ Light laughter ] Right. You see, you wanna play basketball. Kid Rock: You have the most freedom in music. I've had discussions with this with my sports friends. And you have more freedom in music than you do being an actor, where there's 10 million people involved in writing, directing, producing and being on a sports team, where you got a coach. "Where were you guys last night? Oh, you're off the team. You came in too late. You're hanging out with Kid Rock again." You know, anything like that. But music -- you can kinda, you know -- Bill: Yeah, but comed -- Kid Rock: For those of us who do play and sing live -- and this band will hear -- we can write, produce, play, go out. We can delegate what we wanna do, which in no other field, really, can you do that. Bill: But even ugly guys -- [ Laughter ] -- If they play music -- Gene: It's true. It's true. Bill: It's true. Gene: It's true. Bill: And is it the music itself? See, I think it's because women are not talked to by men. Men don't know how to talk to women. Kid Rock: I've heard this said the best way. It's said God created rock 'n' roll and porno for one reason. So ugly guys could get laid, too. [ Light laughter ] [ Cheers and applause ] Jo Dee: Wow. Bill: Yeah, I'm sure that's what God had in mind there. [ Laughter ] That is what God is working on. Gene: You know what I really think it is? And I've been doing this a long time. I'm sure you can see the battle scars. There's a simple idea -- we're all trapped by society. Society tells women, "you're supposed to be loyal to one man for the rest of your life." Society tells men likewise, and so on and so forth. We all sort of lead life through a paint-by-numbers set. It's very exciting, very enticing, for a woman to see a man who simply lives life by his or her own rules. "I will determine my fate." And so it's very sexy because somebody feels like an alpha male or an alpha female. They decide for themselves what life is gonna be about. And that's very -- Bill: You don't think it's because women are hearing things that they would just love to hear at home? But the guy at home doesn't just call to say, "I love you." He doesn't say, "there's something in the way you move." He doesn't -- Gene: We don't talk like that. Kid Rock: Yeah, I'm not the most -- I'm not the most romantic singer in the world. Bill: No, no, I'm not -- you're right. [ Laughter ] You're right. And that's rap. And that's where rap is different from pop music. Master P: Well, I mean, I think, you know, at the end of the day, you know, like you said, a woman probably got mood changes, you know what I'm sayin'? Whether that she wanna be around somebody that just gonna be lovey-dovey with her. Then she wanna be with somebody that's a thug or somebody that's keepin' it real or whatever. It's different. It's called "thug love." Thug passion. [ Laughter ] [ Cheers ] Bill: Yeah, I never understood why -- I understand why men relate to the music you guys do. I never understand why women wouldn't throw it right in the garbage, because it is -- Gene: Why don't you ask our woman? Bill: What? Yeah. Jo Dee: Well, I mean, as far as going back to the original question, why women just idolize guys in rock or any form of music, really -- It's the fantasy of it all, I think. You know, you see the guy up there, and he's just -- like you said, he's in control. He's -- you know, says all the things that you want him to say. But it's not -- I think that's -- Our fan bases, though, it's not just women idolizing guys. I had a keyboard player one time that actually quit my band to go see a Kiss show. Because we had a gig -- [ Light laughter ] We had a gig! This kid went through all the auditions, learned all this stuff and -- Kid Rock: Doesn't need a job. [ Light laughter ] Jo Dee: No, he does now. Gene: Again, maybe at the end of the day, there's something that's very appealing about anybody -- Kid's girlfriend Pamela is a girl that everybody thinks about -- guys and girls. Some of the girls have a problem with it. "Look at her. She's -- " Everybody talks about it. It makes somebody twice as sexy as they are. When you decide for yourself, "This is who I am. This is what I'm gonna do. Doesn't matter if society gets it or not," that's very appealing. Now, combine that with fame, power, lots of money -- even ugly guys like us can get it all the time. Master P: Hey. Kid Rock: In trouble. [ Light laughter ] Bill: But why do these guys have to brag about it and you don't? Gene: Oh, I brag. Jo Dee: He brags. Gene: What, do you live in a cave? Jo Dee: He was bragging backstage. Kid Rock: That was the '70s, man. You didn't need to brag in the '70s. Bill: But why do you now? I mean, like -- I was reading the tabloid the other day, and they had this thing about Cher's face falling off. [ Laughter ] And -- I thought that is just so unremittingly cruel, and people are -- Kid Rock: Why are we talking about the tabloids? What are you talking about? Bill: I'm making a -- Kid Rock: This wasn't a story you read in "Time" magazine, right? "I read in the tabloids." Who cares? Bill: No, I read the tabloids for the -- Gene: Cher doesn't need anybody to validate her. She has nothing to prove to anyone. Bill: Could I finish what I was saying? Kid Rock: No. [ Light laughter ] Bill: It wasn't -- the point wasn't about Cher. It was a point about people don't like celebrities on a certain level. They want Cher's face to fall -- Kid Rock: No, they wanna help you get big, and then they wanna see you -- Jo Dee: Slap you down. Bill: Right. And what I was gonna say is I can understand -- I don't understand that because I don't understand why celebrities have to be -- It's like our bullfighting. We wanna see them in pain. But I do understand one group of celebrities, if their face fell off, why the people would like it. And that's people who brag. People who get up there and say, "I have the bitches and the money that you only wish you could have." [ Laughter ] And I don't understand -- [ Applause ] It's like -- Kid Rock: How are you doing with the chicks? [ Laughter ] Bill: I'm doing -- Kid Rock: How are you doing? Bill: I'm doing okay, but nobody -- Kid Rock: Let me tell you how you could do better. [ Light laughter ] "I got my own TV show. I got my own house in the hills. I'm on every night. Check me out on -- " What -- ABC? Bill: ABC. Kid Rock: ABC. "I'm on ABC." Bill: Nice to meet a fan. [ Light laughter ] Kid Rock: "Check me out." Tell him, P. Gene: All these questions coming from a guy who I saw at Hef's New Year's Eve surrounded by women. Bill: Okay, New Year's Eve, what did I do at midnight? I watched the -- I watched the guy from Kiss have a kiss. Gene: Yeah. Bill: Because -- Gene: So? Bill: Who was I with at midnight? You. [ Laughter ] I was. We'll take a break. We'll be right back. You know that's true. [ Cheers and applause ] Bill: Kids today -- it turns out that the 15-year-old boy who flew his little plane into that big building in Tampa left a note expressing sympathy for Osama Bin Laden. I don't know what this kid was thinking. He certainly could have met 72 virgins just by showing up in homeroom. [ Laughter ] Bill: Well, President Bush took a page out of his dad's old playbook this weekend, declaring that taxes would be raised "over my dead body." Strong words. Of course, when Bush says "my dead body," he is referring to Dick Cheney. You know that. [ Laughter ] We shouldn't, either. [ Applause ] Gene: You know I love him. Bill: I'm sure you do. All right. As I said, I want to talk about this kid, this 15-year-old boy who flew his plane into the building in Florida. Now, they say he had written a note where he expressed sympathy for Osama Bin Laden, which, I think, is amazing. Now, 15-year-olds, of course, treat rock stars as role models. The other guy who -- Kid Rock: Probably listened to a Kid Rock cd when he did it. Bill: No, no. That's not what I'm saying, but, I mean, like the other guy, Johnnie Walker, the guy who joined the Taliban -- he, they said, was into rap. Master P: Well, I think you got to look at -- I think -- It's different kind of music when you say rap. I mean, you know, my new single is "Ooh-We." I can't see no kid plannin' no plane into a building over "Ooh-We." [ Laughter ] Bill: I'm not -- [ Applause ] You guys must be doing crank in the green room. You never let me finish what I'm -- I'm not -- I'm not -- [ Laughter ] Kid Rock: I'm not saying a word. I'm not -- Jo Dee: Gene told us never to let you finish. Bill: Yeah. I'm not -- I'm not saying that -- I never thought, for a second, that kids did anything bad from listening to hip hop, except brag. Master P: But I'm sayin' that -- 'cause I think the thing is -- The point that we missin', everybody lookin' for a scapegoat. You know what I'm sayin'? The same with when that guy went to -- went over to the war, he lookin' for a scapegoat. To say, "I'm throwin' all my rap music out, because I'm goin' and I want to be focused on something else." I mean, if anything, I would have took some of that music and listened to it while I'm over there. Definitely to keep me in the frame of mind. Kid Rock: I think we should just beat him upside the head with rap CDs. Gene: I think perhaps there's a simpler notion. The notion is -- if you live in the country that gives you the most amount of freedom, the price for that is that if you turn against that country and bear arms with the enemy, you deserve death -- legally, ethically, morally -- through a court of justice outside the American justice system, number one. The kid, the 15-year-old -- Bill: You're talking about John Walker? Gene: John Walker, powerful and attractive man. We should all get around -- we should all get around the headstone, say, "thank you, you had everything that everybody else dreams about in America. You decided to bear arms against America. You need to go and say hello to Allah, sooner than later." That's number one. Number two -- [ Laughter ] I'm not done. [ Cheers and applause ] Wait, wait, wait -- Number -- number two is -- number two is this young 15-year-old kid -- perhaps imbalanced, perhaps not -- once you have a dangerous weapon in your hand, whether it's a plane, a car or anything, and you're going into, duh, the Bank of America building, the United States Air Force has every right and should shoot that guy's plane out of the sky. Bill: Right. Gene: So that he can go to paradise sooner. Bill: I don't think that kid was looking to paradise. Gene: I don't care, because he's transgressed America. Bill: Right. Gene: And so if he's insane or not -- Bill: But that kid is just doing the new version of the school shooting. If this was before September 11th, he would have been the next school shooter. Gene: That's -- you know, that's a good point. So if I was in charge of this world, make me king, and you got some kids running around -- Kid Rock: You don't want to be president, you want to be king. Gene: There is no trial. There's no trial. Once you start shooting school kids, I'm taking you out right then and there. Bill: Right. Gene: Judged, guilty, death. Bill: So you don't put any -- [ Applause ] Gene: Well, as soon as you take human life. Bill: Yeah. But you're saying no matter how old the kid is? Master P: Well, I think -- I think -- I think the way I would look at it, I think, is a very serious time for America. I think we just got to pray for each other, and I just think that we don't know where we're going right now. Still have copycats followin' behind what's goin' on. People that are livin' out some type of fantasy. People that's giving up. Like you said, people have been giving up all the time. But now, they have a reason. Bill: Speaking of giving up, you boys know that diamonds fund the terrorists, that Bin Laden puts all his money into diamonds? Master P: I got these from Africa. Kid Rock: What? What are you talking about? [ Laughter ] Gene: That's true. Bill: Yeah, diamonds are what they put their money into, the terrorists, so they can't be traced. So every time you buy a diamond -- Kid Rock: Well, I got a nice big one here for when he wants to come hide out here. Give him a couple of these across the chin. [ Laughter ] I'll sell him some diamonds. Jo Dee: See that thing flying off. Master P: You know what? I think I had these before all that happened. [ Laughter ] Bill: All right. We'll take another commercial. We'll be right back. [ Cheers and applause ] Bill: Designer Yves St. Laurent, perhaps the most important fashion maven in the last 40 years, announced today he was retiring, closing his store for good. Upon hearing the news, a number of models were so upset that they got an appetite. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] All right. While we have musicians here, I wanted to talk about critics, 'cause they make me so angry. I've always said, if you wanna have a really crappy, lousy record collection, read the reviews. Because critics are people -- especially in music -- who apparently they're -- You know, they're not good enough to be a musician. And they're too ugly to be a groupie. So they write about records that are important, as if any record is important. They don't care about what people really like. And I heard you two guys going at this in the break, just when I mentioned it. So, I mean, I was reading the record -- the review of your record, which is a good record. And you can actually sing, even though mostly you do rapping. I mean, when you sing, you can actually sing. I don't know what this guy -- what is his problem? Why does he feel like the only compliment he can ever give to someone who's successful is a backhanded compliment? Yes, sir? [ Laughter ] Kid Rock: Size. Gene: Size matters. Kid Rock: He's got a syndrome. Gene: You know, since you asked and since you brought it up -- Look, the only thing I think that bothers any of us is not that somebody has an opinion but that they sort of pontificate on it. In other words, to drive a car, you've gotta go take the test, get your license. That's your qualification to drive the car. Almost anything we do in life needs a qualification. "Here's my card." Even to be a citizen. To be a journalist, you go through the Pulitzer yellow journalism. You get the journalistic ethic. You get your journalism degree. I have one. Bill: You've gotta be kidding. You think you need a degree? Gene: That's the point! It's a job without credentials. Therefore -- Bill: Without -- right. Gene: -- It's an unnecessary life form on the face of the planet as we know it. [ Laughter ] You know? [ Applause ] Jo Dee: Like you said, half the critics, though, are frustrated musicians. Or a lot of them want to be out there making the records and aren't. And I had -- one of my reviews on my latest record was done by someone who had no clue about my genre of music. It's like having a classically trained musician go out and critique a rap record. You don't understand it. You don't get it. You're gonna sit there and go, "man, this thing isn't for me." And I remember running into somebody later, and they said, "oh, don't worry about it. This guy's new. You know, he's just on a learning curve." I'm like, "why's he gotta learn on my record for?" Bill: Yeah. Jo Dee: So at least give us the -- you know, the courtesy of having someone -- Kid Rock: You know why critics all like Elvis Costello? Bill: Well, Elvis Costello is good. Kid Rock: This is a joke. Can I tell a joke on "Politically Incorrect"? [ Laughter ] Do you -- let me try again. Do you know why the critics all like Elvis Costello? Bill: No, I don't. Gene: Why? Audience: Why? Kid Rock: 'Cause they all look like him. [ Laughter ] Master P: See, I think -- [ Applause ] I think that -- I think the biggest problem, though, right now -- I think, with a critic, like you say, a lot of these people are not successful. So, I mean, how are you gonna tell somebody that makes $20,000 a year to write about somebody like me, a kid that -- I sold 75 million records. So -- Kid Rock: You sold 75 million records?! Master P: Yeah. Bill: Not all his. [ Laughter ] Jo Dee: The worst review -- The worst reviewed records -- Bill: He's got a setup in the parking lot. No, but you -- [ Laughter ] You -- I remember what you said about Radiohead. Remember reading that. And I couldn't agree more. Kid Rock: I mean, if people like Radiohead -- and I have nothing against Radiohead or anybody else -- Bill: Right. Kid Rock: Personally, I don't get it. I don't like the music. I put it in my context, which I feel is maybe the working man -- You know, you work all week, have a party. Have a few friends over, some females and the good times and drinks. Put on some music. I'm not grabbing for the Radiohead CD. I'm, like, grabbing my Kiss cd and my Master P CD. Master P: Yeah! [ Applause ] Kid Rock: I'm not grabbing for that. Master P: I think the thing is, everybody got different music for different people, like she said. I mean, it might be a critic that might prejudge my music and never listened to rap music. Jo Dee: Right, you better get somebody who knows about rap doing his record. That's only fair. Bill: But everybody has different music. But critics don't like -- Master P: But the fans, though. You gotta please the fans -- What -- the same records they say -- We go and sell 3, 4, 5, 6 million records. Gene: Can I help the critics of the country? First of all, all periodicals should hire the handicapped. That's number one. I'll say it again. You should hire the handicapped. Hire critics. [ Light laughter ] That's 'cause you didn't hear it. But there's nothing wrong with every critic's corner being called "In My Opinion." That's saying what you mean, meaning what you say. The problem all of us have with critics is that they actually think that what they're saying is fact. Bill: No, stop. You know what the problem -- Kid Rock: Who reads an article and goes and buys a record? I mean, I didn't do half the stuff my mom told me to do on what she liked and what she didn't like. Why would I read somebody else's thoughts and go, "I think I'll get that record"? Jo Dee: It is hurtful. I will say this, though -- you gotta admit, no matter how tough you are on the outside, when you spend 2 years, 2 1/2 years making a record and somebody -- and you throw it out there and somebody -- [ Talking over each other ] Kid Rock: -- Then sell a couple million copies. Bill: It's about the writer and not about the record. It's about the writer and not about the record. That's what's different. Kid Rock: Look at that article. What do you see? Bill: Crap. Kid Rock: No, you see a picture, and you see Kid Rock. Bill: Okay. Kid Rock: You don't see "Barry Walters." Nobody's like, "well, look at Barry Walters. Boy, I should go get his book." Bill: Now you made him famous. We gotta take a break. We'll be back. [ Applause ] Bill: I know this looks bad with Gene's tongue right there. [ Laughter ] I've never had to plug so much. I feel like a bitch and a ho right now. [ Cheers and applause ] Credits Executive Producers Bill Maher Nancy Geller Marilyn Wilson Kevin Hamburger Supervising Producer Sheila Griffiths Created By Bill Maher Directed By Hal Grant Head Writer/Producer Billy Martin Writers Jose Arroyo Kevin Bleyer Bill Maher Ned Rice Kevin Rooney Danny Vermont Coordinating Producer Claudia Cagan Producer Carole Chouinard Associate Director Bob Staley Stage Manager Patrick Whitney Produced by Dean E. Johnsen Executive in Charge of Production John Fisher Executive Producers Brad Grey Bernie Brillstein Marc Gurvitz abc.com © 2001 Follow Up Productions, Inc. Brad Grey Television HBO Downtown Productions