Wars and Rumours Of Wars:
Was There Really A Conspiracy?
Well, I dove into the choppy waters that is my guestbook and got, among other things, a very telling movement afoot that suggests, very strongly, that the Oklahoma City bombing was part and parcel of a grand Conspiracy coverup. You know, I used to crave embodying the comforting notion that Tim didn't act alone and that he had no way, means or opportunity to build the gigantic bomb that propelled Tim into the realm of the tragic anti-hero. I held onto that belief before and after his trial, that he played the part of the fall-guy while others, perhaps more skilled in constructing massive truck bombs and with their own agenda. It made me feel better about supporting someone who had been given an unfair trial, if I could wallow in the idea that Tim didn't act alone by a long shot. No, he must have been a patsy---someone who had been exploited and given a bad rap.
David Hammer, one of Tim's neighbours on death row, said that "Tim played those men like fine-tuned fiddles." He wrote that he had one hell of a lot of material about Tim and that when Hammer's book comes out, he would show Tim's true colours. Now, I have been told many times by insiders that Hammer makes up a lot with regard to Tim and that was what led me to question just who else was instrumental in planning and detonating a seven thousand pound truck bomn. Tim always maintained his culpability, stating over and over, "Show me what I needed help with. Money? We (Terry Nichols) robbed a guy of his weapons and sold them for profit. Did I need the skills? I read "The Turner Diaries" and it showed me how to build a weapon of mass destruction. I didn't need anyone's help."
When Lou Michel and Daniel Herbeck approached Tim, they stated that they wanted to tell Tim's story along with the bombing. Tim complied and spent many days and weeks telling the tragic tale, a tale that showed culpability for the first time. After several years on death row, Tim was ready to abandon his appeals and seek a speedy execution date. I often wondered just why he wanted that book written. After all, anyone who read it would be shocked to realize that Tim had built the bomb himself. His father, Bill, said he "stayed awake half the night" when he read "American Terrorist." The man just didn't want to realize that his son had been instrumental in such a desperate act of revolution. Tim wanted to spark a revolution and fully believed that his death would be avenged."
I believe that Tim relished the idea that everything he said in the making of the book, because he could go out with a bang, so to speak. He wanted to be executed, because it would offer him the martyrdom he wanted so badly. Everything Tim did, before, during and after the bombing, was done for a reason. I believe that the building and the planning of the massive bomb provided Tim with a rather disturbing antidepressant---he had been dogged with clinical depression since the Gulf War, probably having its roots in the fact that Tim laboured under a dark sun for most of his life.
I do not pretend to ask you all to believe that I am certain about the conspriacy of "Others Unknown" is incorrect. Stephen Jones, one of Tim's attorneys, had a falling out with his client because he actually wrote a book entitled "Others Unknown" and wanted to sway the jury into thinking that Tim couldn't possibly have done the bombing on his own. Tim called him "SJ" and had nothing good to say about him whatsoever. Tim was dismayed at the possibity of being proven to be a mere patsy and so he fired Jones.
I know that a lot of you want to believe that Tim didn't act alone and that he is somehow absolved of the total blame. As far as I know, SJ was determined to test his theories with the judge and he failed miserably.
Karen, I like your site and those wonderful early pictures of Tim and there are elements of your theories that make sense to me. But as I told you in the guestbook, we would all be doing Tim a disservice if we believed that he was a small part of the big picture. Cate McCauley befriended Tim when the talk of conspiracy theories turned out to be bogus. They carried on extensive correspondance and both she and Tim were angry that Tim might now achieve martyrdom.
So, I do understand that the execution and detonating of the huge bomb seem to be much more than any one person could have done it. Perhaps some of you need to hang onto the notion that Tim played a relatively small part in the bombing. If you want to get pissed at me for debunking those theories, just think for a minute what that would have done to Tim to be proven to be a pathetic patsy.
Don't sweep the man's moment of glory, as he saw it. Just remember that he is no longer around to defend himself.
Then again....
I have to confess that I was once heavily immersed in the "Conspiracy" waters. Yes, months ago, I posted an essay onto the infamous Usenet newsgroup, alt.acvivist.death-penalty that McVeigh wasn't working lone. I have cut and pasted the whole story--not just my thoughts, but also the somewhat caloused replies by a group of men to whom I addressed my theories. So, Karen and others of you believe strongly that there were others who were culpable for the crime, well, I honesty figured that my version was written in stone and that was why I started the thread in the first place. Regulars in a.a.d-p are intelligent and well-versed in matters for or against, but can be very nasty. I haven't posted in that newsgroup for many weeks, even months, but am getting back on that carousel again. I won't let JIGSAW, PV and everyone else who were adamant that I was not only wrong, but hopeless. So, here are my opinions. I was completely convinced that I knew exactly who did the bombing. As you can read below, I took a fair bit of fire. Nobody could convince me that my theory wasn't true.
Welcome to alt-activism.death-penalty:
i know i said i wouldn't talk about McVeigh again (yes, i hear a collective groaning and perhaps some ponking) but i've been wondering about this scenario for quite awhile now and, in light of recent events, bears at least a look at. i just e-mailed this to a friend of mine who lobbeys to end the death penalty:
You know, i've been reading parts of "American Terrorist" as well as excerpts from various online essays about the bombing and in all cases, there was a clear mention of a man of about 5'9" tall, stocky build, dark, slicked-back hair and an olive complexion. One source commented upon the fact that he was from the Middle East. So then, why was this man never investigated or traced? Why? Because he was clever and well-trained by Osama bin Laden. He high-tailed it out of the US right after the bombing, once he knew that Tim would be taking the fall, would be arrested, charged and given a death sentence. Tim was eager to work for the Taliban for the feel as he did about the government and he was at such a low point in his life at that time, that he didn't care if he was killed and branded the "Oklahoma City Bomber" or "Most hated man in America." He likely looked forward to the fame, the attention and the notoriety. Yes, the Taliban knew who to pick for a patsy.
i'm not even totally sure whether Tim even drove the truck to the Murrah site or ignited the fuses. At least two people who got a look at the driver as he exited the cabin described him as rather short, swarthy, slicked-back hair and Middle Eastern and not wearing a hat. Tim assured everyone he had a baseball cap on at the time. Tim may just have been waiting at his getaway car, complete with a lack of license plates to ensure he'd be caught as soon as possible. The Taliban member got off scot-free and planned it that way.
But, as the planned attack on the US on September 11th loomed closer and closer, the Taliban got nervous. They didn't want Tim to change his mind and spill the beans about the whole operation. So someone got to him and demanded that he waive all the rest of his appeals and ask for a speedy execution date. They wanted to make sure he was silenced forever at least a few months before September 11th. Well, even taking in the possibilities for several stays of execution, bin Laden and his bunch of killers knew that Tim would be dead well in advance of the US attacks.
Does this make any sense to you? i haven't been able to sleep at night thinking about it. Tim was just *too* willing and eager to take the entire blame for the bombing. It was his moment to shine, he thought and so he figured that most people are rather stupid and/or clueless and would believe anything those authors of "American Terrorist'" wrote.
i also believe that David knows a lot more about the situation than he's said. i would never approach him to ask him about these things----it would be using him and i would never do that to a friend. But don't Tim and his family deserve the truth to finally come out? Tim was not an instigator---he was a follower. He was great at taking orders, not giving them. So the Taliban hit pay dirt when they found this unhappy, depressed loner looking for a place in the world and a place in history.
Tim didn't want to waive his appeals and die last June. He simply had no choice. But if bin Laden was behind the Oklahoma bombing, people have the right to know. Doesn't Bush realize that by ordering Tim's execution, he was actually helping the enemy? bin Laden must be having a big laugh about that.
Please give these facts some careful consideration. i'm not just scrambling wildly for a way to vindicate Tim---i'm being realistic and logical.
sincerely,
jane
Now, prepare yourselves for the fallout. This first post was written by Craig, a staunch anti-death penalty activist like myself. So I'll start with his response. There aren't many of us, at least in that newsgroup. He sent me an article on Australian and the death penalty:
Hi Jane, Here's that transcript.
http://www.abc.net.au/arts/books/stories/s432193.htm
Cheers,
Craig
"Exador"
I heard a lecture by Vidal on Australian ABC radio while he was out here a couple of months ago. I haven't been able to find a transcript as yet, although I have requested one just now. IIRC he seems to feel that McVeigh was so disgusted o disgusted by the actions of the of the FBI at Waco that he believed that he was justified in taking an atrocious action against the Government in return.
Vidal professes admiration for the extent of McVeigh's reading and his knowledge of history and politics. He says that he believes that McVeigh may well not have been the one who actually planted or detonated the bomb, that the FBI were ell aware of this, and that McVeigh remained silent out of loyalty to his fellow conspirators. I thought he said that he did attend the excution as a witness, but I may be wrong about this.
I don't recall getting the impression that he thought McVeigh was a hero in the act of the bombing, but that he had "heroic" qualities, and was largely a victim of his co-conspirators himself. Sorry if this is incomplete, it was a couple of months ago.
Cheers,
Craig
"enigmacat"
Excuse my ignorance here, but exactly what did Vidal write to McVeigh about" i must confess as to not knowing. Thanks.
sincerely,
jane
> >
On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:42:18 +1000, "Exador"
"JIGSAW1695"
Subject: Don't kick my ass for this post. Just try to keep an open mind.
From: nothgroupie@wwdc.com (enigmacat) Date: 12/14/01 6:52 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <3c1a8fe8.170595427@news.lon.imag.net>
===============================
My first impression after reading this is that you are a total idiot. However, Im willing to give you the benefite of a doubt. All you have to do is give us some evidence that supports your theory. Also, im interested in your opinions of the Kennedy assasination as well as what is really going on at Area 51.
"enigmacat"
But your stupid jokes that allude to any positive feelings i might have for bin Laden
No one's claiming you have feelings for him, Jane. You need to look at these things in the context of what is being responded to. Face it... you sound like you're in love with a guy on Death Row in Indiana (how many tattoos does he have? Hell -- how many tattoos do YOU have?), and you see conspiracy around every corner, and a connection of McVeigh to bin Laden.
Good Grief, girl... take a tranquilizer. Get a grip. Whatever. I'm no shrink... but I've helped a few here gain mental stability again. A. Mr. dirt, no longer believes he copulates with my Mother. A Mr. highimpact1000 no longer believes he communicates with God on a one-on-one basis. Herr Doctor Professor Earl Evleth no longer believes he IS God (This one is still out to the jury, actually). I can help you overcome your delusions if you just allow your mind to float free from the imaginary chains of conspiracy that are gripping you. Think good thoughts... butterflies floating in perfumed air... stay off the sauce. Buzzzt. END OF SESSION ONE. Please insert $165 for next session.
PV
This one made me laugh:
He's so right Jane. There's nothing like a long PV post to straighten you out. If you are suffering from insomnia, I recommend a session of Planet Visitor/Peter Morris threads. If the complaint persists, add a dose of PV/Earl posts - that'll do nicely. Seriously, well semi-seriously, your posts do not do our, that is the abolitionist, cause that much good. Trying to gain sympathy for the condemned is frankly self defeating. If you concentrated on the bad effects that executing has on the society that practices it you might be 'batting on a better wicket'. If you know nothing of cricket, there's nothing I can do for you.
Never argue with an idiot Jane, He will just bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Bill
"enigmacat"
*sigh*. Now you're doing the "ganging up against the list flake" routine. i've seen it before and if you must pat one another on the back for coming up with the best "jane zingers" then sobeit.
But your stupid jokes that allude to any positive feelings i might have for bin Laden are nothing short of ludicrous and somewhat--no, totally--libelous.
sincerely,
jane
On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:19:18 GMT, "A Planet Visitor"
Mr. D.... are you here.... what do you think about her ride down with bin Laden about now?
PV
Now, wasn't that fun? So you see, I've taken a lot of flack for my views. I hope you read this.
His Gullible Sister
Message from my brother on an e-mail I received some months ago. First I tell my version of things:Well, now, if i know the Taliban and that bin Laden piece of garbage, they would balk at Tim showing that he had ANYTHING to do with the Middle East would sound the death knell for them and put the blame on the right people. Whatever else bin Laden is, he's not stupid and if Tim were found with Islamic literature on him, it would be a calling card that the bombing originated in the Middle East. As for communicating with the bin Laden bunch, well, you and i know just how sneaky and effective that attack on the WTC was. There's no way that he'd leave any kind of trail that might lead the US to him. There was a great deal of planning with regard to the bombing in OKC----probably over two years or more.
And thus he responded:
At 02:14 AM 12/15/01 -0600, he wrote:
Tim and the Taliban? Okey dokey. Can't say I agree. No evidence of Muslim religion in his life, was there? Didn't have the koran with him on death row, did he? In the extensive investigation of his life and activities, any contact with anyone from the middle east (ie meetings).
Just find it all hard to believe. I do know this: he had motive, opportunity, and has confessed. Good 'nuff for me!
Of course he confessed and there's no doubt in my mind that he played an integral part in the bombing. He confessed because he had to---it was part of the plan. By leading the US to focus on a gun-loving, anti-government activist and anti-social man like McVeigh, it absolved bin Laden for seeming to have any part in it.
...And back to me:
Anyway, it does make a great deal of sense to me and not because i'm trying to make excuses for McVeigh. He did take part all right but was by no means the only one culpable. But now that McVeigh's dead, they'll never re-open the case and that really pisses me off. The Taliban wins again.
Cheers
all my love,
auntie jane
My e-mail to Julie at Death Row Speaks
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:12:06 -0500To: deathrowspeaks@hotmail.com
From: enigmacat
Subject: something to think about
You know, i've been reading parts of "American Terrorist" as well as excerpts from various online essays about the bombing and in all cases, there was a clear mention of a man of about 5'9" tall, stocky build, dark, slicked-back hair and an olive complexion. One source commented upon the fact that he was from the Middle East. So then, why was this man never investigated or traced? Why? Because he was clever and well-trained by Osama bin Laden. He high-tailed it out of the US right after the bombing, once he knew that Tim would be taking the fall, would be arrested, charged and given a death sentence. Tim was eager to work for the Taliban for the feel as he did about the government and he was at such a low point in his life at that time, that he didn't care if he was killed and branded the "Oklahoma City Bomber" or "Most hated man in America." He likely looked forward to the fame, the attention and the notoriety. Yes, the Taliban knew who to pick for a patsy.
i'm not even totally sure whether Tim even drove the truck to the Murrah site or ignited the fuses. At least two people who got a look at the driver as he exited the cabin described him as rather short, swarthy, slicked-back hair and Middle Eastern and not wearing a hat. Tim assured everyone he had a baseball cap on at the time. Tim may just have been waiting at his getaway car, complete with a lack of license plates to ensure he'd be caught as soon as possible. The Taliban member got off scot-free and planned it that way.
But, as the planned attack on the US on September 11th loomed closer and closer, the Taliban got nervous. They didn't want Tim to change his mind and spill the beans about the whole operation. So someone got to him and demanded that he waive all the rest of his appeals and ask for a speedy execution date. They wanted to make sure he was silenced forever at least a few months before September 11th. Well, even taking in the possibilities for several stays of execution, bin Laden and his bunch of killers knew that Tim would be dead well in advance of the US attacks.
Does this make any sense to you? i haven't been able to sleep at night thinking about it. Tim was just *too* willing and eager to take the entire blame for the bombing. It was his moment to shine, he thought and so he figured that most people are rather stupid and/or clueless and would believe anything those authors of "American Terrorist'" wrote.
i also believe that David (Hammer) knows a lot more about the situation than he's said. i would never approach him to ask him about these things----it would be using him and i would never do that to a friend. But don't Tim and his family deserve the truth to finally come out? Tim was not an instigator---he was a follower. He was great at taking orders, not giving them. So the Taliban hit pay dirt when they found this unhappy, depressed loner looking for a place in the world and a place in history.
Tim didn't want to waive his appeals and die last June. He simply had no choice. But if bin Laden was behind the Oklahoma bombing, people have the right to know. Doesn't Bush realize that by ordering Tim's execution, he was actually helping the enemy? bin Laden must be having a big laugh about that.
Please give these facts some careful consideration. i'm not just scrambling wildly for a way to vindicate Tim---i'm being realistic and logical.
sincerely,
jane
So you can see for yourselves that I am not exactly averse to speaking and writing of a possible conspiracy---Julie did agree with me on some of my theories. If anyone has the right answers, it's Julie White. I am still as confused as ever---part of me wants there to be some kind of middle east elements and they got Tim to "volunteer" to be executed. Please keep an open mind---I do not discount the findings on the McVeigh Tragedy site, but I am not easly willing to dismiss Tim's actions as those of someone more powerful, dangerous and lethal.
But we all know who got that lethal injection, don't we. It's not as though Tim could be around to either validate or debunk theories of a larger, more deadly plan.
